Self-contained actuators: High power density, electric control

00:00:00: Hello everybody and welcome to a new episode of our tech podcast by Bosch Rexroad.

00:00:09: My name is Robert Weiber and my guest today is Vladimir Kamchitsky.

00:00:12: Hello Vladimir, welcome to the podcast.

00:00:15: Thank you, I'm happy to be here.

00:00:17: Today we want to talk about self-contained actuators, but before we start, please introduce

00:00:22: yourself briefly to the listeners.

00:00:24: Sure, I'll stick to the briefly.

00:00:26: Yes, absolutely.

00:00:27: So my name is Vladimir Kamchitsky.

00:00:29: I have a background in mechanical engineering and I've been working as an engineer for about

00:00:33: now 10 years.

00:00:34: Okay.

00:00:35: I've seen multiple industries, I've been in medical, technology, factory automation, construction

00:00:39: machinery and currently I'm in industrial hydraulics.

00:00:43: Okay.

00:00:44: I guess what all roles had in common was a focus on product management and this is also

00:00:48: what I'm doing today.

00:00:50: So I'm responsible for all linear hydraulic movement in our company, which are cylinders,

00:00:55: actuator solutions and of course self-contained actuators you just mentioned.

00:00:59: When did you first come into contact with hydraulics?

00:01:03: I guess being a child I like building Legos and I probably still do a little bit.

00:01:07: But this is not hydraulic Lego, is it problematic?

00:01:10: It's true, but it's still the same way how it works, right?

00:01:13: You have tiny cylinders, you have hoses, you have a small pump, so it kind of works the

00:01:17: same way.

00:01:18: But talking about actual real hydraulics, I guess it was with Rexroad.

00:01:22: So when back in college or university, I was taking or part of a program where we were

00:01:28: taken to different innovation leaders and had plan tours and we're just looking at

00:01:33: different companies and this was probably back in 2010 where I had the chance to get

00:01:39: a plan tour here at Rexroad in Laur, which was way before I started here.

00:01:43: So I guess the first time really with Rexroad.

00:01:46: So let's start with the definition.

00:01:48: What is the difference between electromechanical and self-contained actuators?

00:01:56: That's a great question.

00:01:57: Let me kind of try to explain that.

00:01:59: Starting with electromechanical actuators, we are now talking about the apology or the

00:02:04: way how they work.

00:02:05: We usually start with electric motor.

00:02:08: The torque that is being created is then translated over gears or a belt system into

00:02:13: usually a ball screw that is creating the linear movement.

00:02:17: Maybe one step in between before we go to the self-contained actuators.

00:02:20: But we see the electromechanical in the industrial automation field.

00:02:24: Yeah, quite a lot, right?

00:02:26: They also vary in sizes and forces and speeds, but yes, mostly on the factory automation

00:02:31: side.

00:02:32: One step in between are electro-hydraulic solutions.

00:02:35: It also starts with electrical motor, but the big difference is that you would usually

00:02:39: have a hydraulic pump flanged to it and then the force or the fluid would be transmitted

00:02:45: through manifold or hoses or pipes and go to a classical or more or less classical hydraulic

00:02:50: cylinder that would create the linear movement.

00:02:52: This is a classical hydraulic approach, right?

00:02:55: Correct.

00:02:56: It's still a little bit more contained, so you wouldn't have necessarily somewhere a

00:02:58: central power pack or something like this, but it's still not what we would call a self-contained

00:03:04: actuator.

00:03:05: What comes on top with a self-contained actuator is that it's still the same electro-hydraulic

00:03:09: solution, but we would add more functions into it.

00:03:12: We would have usually frequency variable electric motor, so a servo motor, so now we are starting

00:03:17: to get into servo-hydraulics.

00:03:19: We would add more functions like a safety function.

00:03:22: We would add, for example, a tank or other valves, and what even some actuators have on

00:03:27: top is a frequency converter that is directly mounted onto the actuator.

00:03:32: Why do I need this?

00:03:33: It solves a lot of customer issues.

00:03:35: What is a customer's pain points?

00:03:39: Depending on where a customer is coming from, but in general, it is robustness.

00:03:42: It is the need to create higher forces and I guess have a very tight requirement for positioning

00:03:49: or repeatability in the system.

00:03:52: And which industry sectors are you focused on with your actuators?

00:03:58: I guess, let me call out two.

00:03:59: A lot of our customers are coming from kind of a heavier industry application using hydraulics

00:04:06: as a standard and they are trying to electrify their machines.

00:04:09: They have worked out a way how to electrify a lot of smaller functions, but one usually

00:04:14: crucial function that requires high forces or high capability for shock absorption is

00:04:20: significantly harder to electrify.

00:04:23: So when finding out about self-contained actuators, they are usually amazed what a great bridging

00:04:28: technology this can be between a classical hydraulic system and then on the other side

00:04:33: electromechanical system.

00:04:35: So you combine both worlds.

00:04:37: Correct.

00:04:38: But how do you manage that?

00:04:39: In terms of automation, really a whole machine or machine OEM or machine builder would see

00:04:44: a self-contained actuator just as a servo actuator because it's driven and controlled in the same

00:04:50: way over frequency converter.

00:04:52: How the power transmission is happening afterwards isn't too important for the control architecture.

00:04:58: So for a servo drive, it doesn't matter if a pump is connected or if an electric motor

00:05:02: is connected to a pump or to a belt that is driving a linear movement.

00:05:07: So do you have specialized actuators or do you have one actuators for different industrial

00:05:14: sectors or do you offer different actuators for different industrial sectors?

00:05:19: We have multiple actuators today, but I guess let me go back a couple years ago and explain

00:05:24: you how it started a little bit.

00:05:25: I think in the past we were approached in general by a customer who told us, "Look,

00:05:30: we have an issue.

00:05:31: Can you help us solving it?"

00:05:32: And over a lot of those customers approaching us, we were able to identify patterns and...

00:05:38: Which patterns?

00:05:39: In terms of, "Well, this is my force requirement.

00:05:41: This is my speed requirement.

00:05:43: This is my function requirement."

00:05:44: And we were able to combine them into, let me call them, sweet spots where we could build

00:05:49: a standard portfolio around them.

00:05:51: So we have a smaller actuator that is serving smaller customer needs in terms of force,

00:05:56: speed, functions, and then it kind of scales up in terms of forces, in terms of function

00:06:01: and so on.

00:06:02: So today we are in a greater spot that we were probably a couple of years ago.

00:06:06: And when a customer is approaching us, we can either offer them a standard catalog solution

00:06:10: telling them, "Look, this is what works for a lot of customers and it's a great solution."

00:06:14: Or on the other side, we would tell them, "You are going to build 10, 30, 50 machines.

00:06:19: We think a catalog product might work good for you, but let's invest a little bit of

00:06:23: time to make even a greater product because your machine would greatly benefit from that."

00:06:28: What is a typical use case in the industry sector for self-contained actuators?

00:06:33: Yeah, so I mentioned the case about a customer getting away from centralized hydraulics.

00:06:39: Sure, but maybe a little bit more detailed.

00:06:42: Another one is if we have a customer who is, let's say, having a joining application.

00:06:46: And he used to have a joining process with an electromechanical solution.

00:06:51: So now coming, getting bigger in size or forming application or bending something, for example.

00:06:56: And now he wants to expand into...

00:06:58: to bigger parts or more complicated process.

00:07:01: And then he is basically running out of energy reserves

00:07:05: or power reserves or force reserves

00:07:07: for his specific process,

00:07:09: where electromechanical products

00:07:10: just can't serve this machine anymore.

00:07:13: So he's looking for a bigger or a technology

00:07:16: to realize bigger forces

00:07:18: because he wants to optimize his machine

00:07:21: in terms of now I want to make a bigger part

00:07:23: or I want to press in a bigger bearing

00:07:26: or whatever it might be.

00:07:27: Or he wants to do it quicker or more robust.

00:07:29: So this is really outgrowing existing technology.

00:07:33: - Is it also possible to use your actuators

00:07:35: as a retrofit for existing machines?

00:07:39: - Yeah, we are seeing that actually also a lot.

00:07:42: We have customers or machine builders

00:07:44: who have produced a generation of,

00:07:46: I don't know, presses for example,

00:07:47: over the last 20, 30 years.

00:07:50: And they are still working great today,

00:07:52: but customers are asking,

00:07:53: do you have anything to offer

00:07:55: to optimize energy consumption

00:07:57: or to improve the machine somehow?

00:07:59: And this is where self-contained actuators can also shine

00:08:02: because we can basically come into an existing solution

00:08:06: and replace a hydraulic cylinder

00:08:07: with a central manifold somewhere

00:08:09: and just put in the-- - How difficult is that?

00:08:11: - It's actually not too difficult, I would say.

00:08:14: - Never change a running system?

00:08:16: - Yeah, that's true as long as you're happy

00:08:18: or as long as it's running for you.

00:08:19: But if a customer sees energy prices going up

00:08:22: and just a system starting to feel a little bit outdated

00:08:26: after 20 or 30 years of usage,

00:08:28: where he wants to have more data out of the system,

00:08:30: less energy consumption,

00:08:32: so he can still stick to his quite expensive, to be honest,

00:08:36: and a complicated frame of a machine

00:08:38: and just retrofit the hydraulics

00:08:40: and the control architecture,

00:08:41: which is still simpler for him to do.

00:08:43: And working together with OEMs,

00:08:45: we are really opening a door for them

00:08:47: because they can offer this to their customers.

00:08:49: - Who calls you the OEM

00:08:50: or the machine-building company?

00:08:52: Because from my point of view,

00:08:54: a lot of machine-building companies sell their machine

00:08:57: and say, we see each other in 30 years again.

00:09:00: Is it more driven by the OEM

00:09:02: or by the machine-building companies?

00:09:04: - I think it's both.

00:09:05: Well, obviously, we are interested

00:09:07: in both kinds of businesses, right?

00:09:08: If an OEM is coming along our way,

00:09:10: it might be easier for us on the application side

00:09:13: because he knows all the parameters of the machine

00:09:15: and we would work out a solution for him

00:09:17: and then he's going after his customers

00:09:20: and is retrofitting or upgrading their machines.

00:09:23: On the other side, if we never know,

00:09:25: maybe the OEM went out of business 10 years ago

00:09:27: and the customer is interested in retrofitting his machine,

00:09:30: so then the customer would approach us directly.

00:09:32: - Okay, you mentioned centralized and decentralized

00:09:35: or versus decentralized.

00:09:37: What does it mean for the PLC

00:09:40: and for the control system of the machine

00:09:42: and how is it connected to the actuators?

00:09:46: How difficult is it to control it?

00:09:48: - I feel you're touching on the topic modularization

00:09:51: a little bit and this has been around probably

00:09:54: as long as I've been around, I guess.

00:09:56: So it's not the newest topic or the most--

00:09:58: - But it's very important.

00:09:59: - Yeah, challenging one.

00:10:00: And a lot of those modularization requests

00:10:03: can be solved with a smartly designed

00:10:05: central hydraulic system where you can upscale power unit,

00:10:09: you can make it more flexible.

00:10:10: But of course, it is a little bit easier

00:10:13: to realize with self-contained actuators

00:10:15: because what you can do is that you can make

00:10:18: pretty much every single module of a machine self-sufficient

00:10:23: or running by itself.

00:10:24: So you have an actuator in every module

00:10:26: and you don't need hydraulic piping

00:10:27: that is connecting all of them.

00:10:29: You pretty much just need an electrical power cord

00:10:32: and a data cord to make this actuator run.

00:10:34: And in terms of control architecture,

00:10:37: I guess it's a very big advantage for us being Raxroth

00:10:41: because what we have, and I guess that makes us

00:10:44: a little bit unique in this field is we are not,

00:10:47: we just don't have a great portfolio of hydraulic components

00:10:50: like pumps, cylinders, motors and so on.

00:10:53: But we also have a great portfolio of--

00:10:55: - Of electronic mechanical.

00:10:57: - Right, right, right, and automation parts, right?

00:10:59: So we have drives, we have frequency converters,

00:11:01: we have controls.

00:11:02: So when making sure that this decentralized control

00:11:05: architecture works across the machine,

00:11:07: we are just benefiting that we are using all of our components

00:11:10: which are designed in a way to work great with each other

00:11:13: and also across multiple modules of a machine.

00:11:17: In which applications will you see new business rising

00:11:21: at the horizon?

00:11:22: In which applications do you see the possibility

00:11:26: to use actuators?

00:11:28: - That's kind of interesting, you're mentioning that.

00:11:30: There are a lot of new industries or developing industries

00:11:34: that have not been around a couple years ago or now.

00:11:37: - For example, battery?

00:11:38: - Battery, for example, right?

00:11:39: So we do see battery manufacturing as one aspect.

00:11:44: We see in some, let's say, electronics production processes,

00:11:48: higher forces being demanded.

00:11:50: Even the topic hydrogen is an interesting one

00:11:53: where we have usage of self-contained actuators

00:11:57: to increase the pressure or to compress hydrogen.

00:12:00: So it's a big variety of different applications

00:12:02: that we see big future for this product.

00:12:05: - What are the next steps for you personally

00:12:07: and for your team?

00:12:08: - I mentioned that we came historically from a point

00:12:11: where every single customer approached us

00:12:13: with a very different issue,

00:12:15: where we needed to make it work for them.

00:12:17: Now we are at the point where we have

00:12:19: some standards established.

00:12:20: But I think comparing those couple of standards

00:12:23: we have to a more mature portfolio

00:12:25: is that those standards are so pretty limited in numbers.

00:12:29: So I think going forward,

00:12:31: we will see a higher variety of self-contained actuators

00:12:34: starting with, I guess, smaller than we are starting today

00:12:37: and maybe ending bigger than we are ending today.

00:12:40: So just, I guess, expanding the portfolio

00:12:42: is one of the key words.

00:12:43: - If I have a special wish, as a customer,

00:12:46: it's also possible to solve my special wish.

00:12:49: - Of course, yeah.

00:12:50: As I mentioned, if we have a customer

00:12:51: who's looking to build 30, 50, 100 machines,

00:12:54: they can greatly benefit from a more custom design.

00:12:57: If he wants to make his machine very close

00:13:00: to a standard catalog solution,

00:13:01: but maybe just five or 10% quicker,

00:13:03: that's something we can do

00:13:04: and he will greatly benefit from that.

00:13:06: On the other side, if he feels that the catalog solution

00:13:09: might be slightly too over-engineered for him

00:13:12: or a little bit too sophisticated,

00:13:14: we can start pulling out features,

00:13:16: which makes his machine, on the other hand,

00:13:18: more competitive in the market,

00:13:20: depending how he wants to position it.

00:13:22: - What are your personal next steps?

00:13:24: - All my personal next steps?

00:13:26: I'm not sure today is Monday, right?

00:13:27: So we still have a couple of days going forward in this week,

00:13:31: but no, I'm very excited to see, in general,

00:13:33: I guess this portfolio growing

00:13:35: and becoming more important for Rex Roth as a product area.

00:13:39: But also for the automation business as a technology.

00:13:43: - Thank you very much, it was a pleasure.

00:13:45: - Thank you.

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