H4U: Hydraulics knowledge from the App Store

00:00:00: Hello everybody and welcome to a new episode of our tech-Podcast by Bosch Rexroth.

00:00:09: My name is Robert Weber and next to me is Artur Wirt.

00:00:12: Hello, Artur.

00:00:13: Welcome to the podcast.

00:00:14: Hello, Robert.

00:00:15: Hello, audience.

00:00:16: I'm very happy to be here.

00:00:18: Please introduce yourself briefly to the listeners before we start talking about H4U.

00:00:24: Yes, my name is Artur Wirt.

00:00:25: I'm project manager at H4U.

00:00:28: It's our new platform which enables our customers to be much more flexible.

00:00:34: I've been working for the company Rexroth since 2012 in various roles and functions

00:00:41: and business units.

00:00:43: And I studied electrical engineering at the University of Applied Sciences in Damstadt.

00:00:50: And I was also working for Industry 4.0 Solutions at Bosch.

00:00:56: And now I'm at our business unit, Industrial Hydraulics at Rexroth.

00:01:01: Hydraulics4U, once again a new platform.

00:01:04: What kind of platform is Hydraulics4U?

00:01:07: Yes, that's very interesting.

00:01:09: If we speak about H4U, Hydraulics4U, we speak about Industrial Hydraulics but in the different

00:01:16: way.

00:01:17: Yes, H4U is our software platform and it consists...

00:01:21: But Hydraulics for You is not software.

00:01:23: That's right, Robert.

00:01:24: Hydraulics4U platform consists of hardware but also software and additionally UX topics

00:01:31: like also user experience, user interface and so on.

00:01:35: And we make sure that our customers have considerable benefits out of this platform

00:01:41: or with capabilities of our platform.

00:01:44: So we have hardware components on this platform and software modules or how you would call

00:01:49: it?

00:01:50: Right.

00:01:51: So Hydraulics4U apps, industrial applications and H4U apps consist of hydraulic know-how

00:01:58: and hydraulic application know-how which we built in software and map in software module.

00:02:04: How do your map domain specific knowledge into a software app?

00:02:09: That's with the help of software and model based engineering aspects.

00:02:14: It's possible to generate physical models, hydraulic models.

00:02:18: For example, for our pressure control system or also position force control application

00:02:26: and out of this model we are able to generate code for different automation provider or

00:02:33: control systems like Siemens, Backhoof, K-Bar and so on.

00:02:37: So to once again, what do you sell now to your customer?

00:02:41: It is only a software module or an app as you call it?

00:02:46: Yes, of course, we are able to sell.

00:02:49: And what is in this app?

00:02:50: That's a great question.

00:02:52: That's our know-how and functions like for example, pressure force control, leakage

00:02:57: compensation and so on.

00:02:59: That means our hydraulic know-how we built in PLC function blocks.

00:03:05: And this PLC function block is configurable and it's standard IEC 61131 application and

00:03:12: the customer can use it, configure it and use it also for hydraulic use cases, industrial

00:03:18: hydraulic use cases.

00:03:19: So it's a code snippet?

00:03:20: Right, it's a code snippet but it's more like a standard PLC function block.

00:03:26: Yes, with inputs, outputs and so on.

00:03:29: This domain specific knowledge, how do you handle this domain specific knowledge and

00:03:34: how do you now implement it this in one specific code?

00:03:40: So you collect it from all your customers or from all your components or how do you

00:03:45: deal that?

00:03:46: How do you handle that?

00:03:48: Yes, that's both way.

00:03:50: On the one hand, we have experience at our colleagues, application colleagues, engineers

00:03:55: and so on.

00:03:56: And you ask them?

00:03:57: No, we don't ask them.

00:03:58: We built this knowledge in software models.

00:04:02: So that means we collect the information out of our products like pumps or valves or also

00:04:09: our CitroBox/CitroConnect topics and build it in software models in Matlab semilig, for

00:04:16: example, right?

00:04:18: And out of this model, we generate our H4U apps and we are very open and flexible.

00:04:24: We can deploy or generate the code for different PLC systems but also for, let me say, non-time

00:04:32: critical aspects also for cloud infrastructure and so on.

00:04:36: But the cloud infrastructure won't speak IAC.

00:04:39: That's right.

00:04:40: We have the possibility because of model-based engineering to generate flexible code and

00:04:45: also a C++ topics and so on.

00:04:49: You mentioned Kebar and Siemens and Backoff.

00:04:52: So it's possible to use your apps on their control unit, right?

00:04:58: On their PLC.

00:04:59: That's right.

00:05:00: Yeah, we are ready and we can use different automation systems.

00:05:04: But these automation companies are not your customer.

00:05:07: Your customer is, for example, injection-molding companies, machine builders.

00:05:12: And they can download this app on your platform and then put it on their PLC.

00:05:19: On the third-party PLC, that's right, yeah.

00:05:22: That's the way.

00:05:24: What do customers think about that?

00:05:26: Our first fairs like Hannover Fair and Maytek and Dusseldorf, we ask our customers and they

00:05:32: accept it and also they understand really fast how and what we are talking about.

00:05:38: So they push also their ideas and we are in close collaboration with them.

00:05:45: And also we speak with the automation providers like Siemens and Kebar and Backoff because

00:05:51: we are in addition to classical automation use cases.

00:05:56: Now we are able to implement our hydraulic know-how there.

00:06:01: And that's the benefit for the customer because this flexibility, the customer can use the

00:06:06: standard and already integrated automation system.

00:06:10: They don't have to buy our hardware and so on.

00:06:13: So that's the benefit for our customers.

00:06:17: So is it also a retrofit option for your customers when you have older components and now you

00:06:23: get software applications that helps to improve this hardware?

00:06:29: That's a good question.

00:06:30: I have to answer it with "Depends on".

00:06:33: Maybe.

00:06:34: Always.

00:06:35: The engineering answers, it depends.

00:06:37: It depends on, yeah.

00:06:39: It's a question of hardware and also engineering framework and so on.

00:06:44: If it is a 20 years old molding machine or something like that, it will be difficult.

00:06:49: But if it's a new application or a new hydraulic application with automation provider, so that's

00:06:56: possible.

00:06:57: What is your goal with this platform?

00:07:00: Yeah.

00:07:01: To sell digital products, to sell hardware.

00:07:04: What is the goal?

00:07:05: Yes.

00:07:06: Our goal is first of all to help our customers to be, let me say, more productive and to reduce

00:07:15: energy consumption.

00:07:16: Okay.

00:07:17: Sustainability.

00:07:18: And sustainability topic, right?

00:07:19: And we are able to, let me say, to give them now new flexibility because we integrate our

00:07:25: platform and our products, but additionally in the automation systems of our customers

00:07:32: and users and in the cloud infrastructure.

00:07:34: So our customers will be much more flexible with our hydraulics for you platform.

00:07:40: And how difficult is it to build a platform focused on software and not focused on hardware

00:07:48: from your point of view?

00:07:49: It's a very difficult topic, but our...

00:07:52: It's a mind shift.

00:07:54: It's also...

00:07:55: Yes, it's a mind shift.

00:07:57: It's a new, completely new mindset and we need new competencies like software engineering

00:08:03: or UX experience and so on.

00:08:06: And from my point of view, we are in a transformation from hardware centric industrial hydraulics

00:08:13: of the centric industrial hydraulics and it's a journey where we started now and we will continue to grow and to push this topic also.

00:08:21: When I talk to machine building companies or to OEMs, the answer with talking about updates and retrofit and try out new technology, the answer I often hear is never change a running system.

00:08:36: So when I now go on your platform and download your application, is it possible to try this new application, this new software in a virtual environment before I give it to my PLC?

00:08:52: Yes, that's a good question, Robert.

00:08:55: Thanks.

00:08:55: We name it economic efficiency.

00:08:57: And regarding this topic, we mean the digital twin aspects.

00:09:02: That means that the user can virtually commission the machine and simulate also the behavior of important topologies even before buying hardware and implementing hardware.

00:09:15: So that's also one of the benefits of hydraulics for you platform.

00:09:19: So it's possible without buying a hydraulic component by Bosch Reksoft before I can try your software apps?

00:09:27: Yes.

00:09:28: That's right.

00:09:28: We talk here about Bosch Rekthroat Simulation Library.

00:09:32: So we have models and simulation models and the customer can also use these models to simulate the machine before buying hardware.

00:09:42: Yes.

00:09:42: How do you update your software apps?

00:09:46: Because there's new knowledge.

00:09:48: There are new ideas.

00:09:50: There are new inputs, new information, more data.

00:09:55: How do you update your software applications?

00:09:58: Yes, we do it in agile manner.

00:10:01: That means that we are iteratively and incrementally develop our apps.

00:10:05: For example, our pressure flow control, H4U-APQ.

00:10:09: We have launched in March of this year and the second version of this app we will have at the end of next year.

00:10:18: So we develop our H4U-APQ apps further and also put the benefits but also the feedback of the customers in it and develop it further.

00:10:29: Okay.

00:10:30: And do you have to pay for this software?

00:10:33: Yes, of course.

00:10:34: I think the customers will see that there are considerable benefits.

00:10:39: And so regarding this...

00:10:40: Can you give an example?

00:10:41: What kind of benefit?

00:10:43: In money, in time saving, efficiency?

00:10:46: I will point out the topic of sustainability.

00:10:49: For example, we have functionality at our PQ app, which allows the customer to detect leakage.

00:10:57: For example, in their systems and we have also functions like energy efficiency mode.

00:11:03: And that allows our customers to reduce the carbon footprint of the machine and also of hydraulic applications.

00:11:13: So that's the benefit or one of the benefits.

00:11:16: And therefore, and also for the flexibility because they can use now the consisting infrastructure automation systems and so on.

00:11:24: And therefore we have our H4U apps and it's software based, let me say, business model.

00:11:31: How important was it that you can use the existing automation system?

00:11:36: Because when you have a closed shop or a closed vendor, it's not possible to use it.

00:11:42: And how important is this openness to work, to play with, with back off, with cable, with Siemens.

00:11:48: You have also PLC from Bosch by Bosch Racks with Control-X.

00:11:52: How important is it to be open in this industry?

00:11:56: For our point of view, it's the key for the future to be more open because we have topics and challenges like skill shortage and so far.

00:12:06: That means that we as a solution provider, we must or we have to bring this flexibility and also technology to shape the future and to make our customers flexible too.

00:12:20: So that's from our point of view, it's the key.

00:12:22: Can I also use your software application for third party hydraulic components too?

00:12:28: Yes, of course, it's possible from our point of view.

00:12:31: We have our components and also, let me say, the component capabilities.

00:12:37: We know our components, so it's much better and you have more functionalities if you use our pumps and valves and so on.

00:12:47: But the basic, let me say, basic controller and physics, it's the same.

00:12:51: So it's also possible to use it with third party components.

00:12:55: You mentioned labor shortage.

00:12:58: How difficult is it for you to find hydraulic experts because you want to develop more software applications?

00:13:06: You need hydraulic experts with domain specific knowledge.

00:13:09: How difficult is it for you to find these people?

00:13:12: We have these people on board in our business unit, but the point is that at our customers, we find more and more people.

00:13:23: They speak software and automation.

00:13:25: Yes, so it's also for us necessary to develop our competencies and also to build our know-how, what we have now and our application know-how in software.

00:13:37: And it's also scalable.

00:13:39: That's the benefit of software, right?

00:13:41: So what are your next steps with your platform for this year?

00:13:46: You said you will update your apps.

00:13:48: Will we see new apps?

00:13:50: Of course, yeah.

00:13:51: We are working iteratively on this topic and we have also new apps in the pipe, for example, interpolation or also for access and cylinders, a synchronous control app.

00:14:04: But also, of course, for new technologies like hydrogen and topics of carbon and efficiency and sustainability.

00:14:12: So a totally new customers?

00:14:14: Of course, yeah.

00:14:15: New fields of action, new customers, no domain specific knowledge.

00:14:19: That's right.

00:14:20: Yeah.

00:14:20: We built up the domain specific knowledge at hydrogen, but we can use also our mechanisms and our know-how, hydraulic know-how to generate solutions also in these additional fields.

00:14:33: So you have this platform.

00:14:35: Is it possible to enter as a third party with apps or is it an exclusive Bosch-Rex or hydraulic platform?

00:14:44: Generally, we are open, Robert.

00:14:47: But in the first step, we generate our solutions and make them usable for our customers.

00:14:53: And you can find our apps also in our control.exe store of our automation electrification solutions colleagues.

00:15:01: Yes, because we have customers who use automation aspects, but also industrial hydraulics aspects in their machines and applications.

00:15:11: So we are.

00:15:12: And the idea is also to sell a control.exe to them.

00:15:14: Yes, of course.

00:15:16: What are your personal next steps?

00:15:17: What do you have to do in this year?

00:15:20: In this year, we will finish our several H4U apps as already mentioned.

00:15:26: And then the next step is to deploy and to include this platform in the next generation of hydraulic products.

00:15:35: Yes, that means that our customers, that means you will get new products with hardware, with software, with new UI concepts in the future.

00:15:45: And we develop and establish this platform further.

00:15:49: But these new components are software driven?

00:15:52: Right.

00:15:53: Software driven development?

00:15:55: That's the key.

00:15:56: Yes, we look at industrial hydraulics from the software perspective and that's the new thinking, that's a new method.

00:16:04: And from my point of view, it's also a new mindset, right?

00:16:08: Yeah, it's a new paradigm for this industry.

00:16:10: Yeah.

00:16:10: Ato, thank you very much.

00:16:12: It was a pleasure, all the best for you and your team.

00:16:14: Thank you.

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